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HIP-HOP CONVENTION FOR THE UNINFORMEDRecommendations In Opening Post, Wealth Of Knowledge Throughout Thread


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#21 Smilin' Desperado

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 01:21 AM

yea, enter the 36 chambers is the best hip hop album ever

#22 Stalktheground11

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 02:35 AM

I once emailed the first section of the track "Method Man" to my brother for his birthday.

#23 digadaga

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 03:04 AM

Sole, Atmosphere, Hieroglyphics

Anyone?

#24 hottnikkels

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 03:44 AM

Thanks for the compliments guys, I got out of school early and had a little time on my hands.

Yeah I know I left out "the low end theory", I left out a ton of great albums. Those were just some of the ones that I thought of at the time, and I felt like those album are all really accesible and quality albums that pretty much everyone should be able to enjoy.

If we're talkin Wu-tang you gotta mention Raekwon's "Only built for cubin lynx" also.

#25 Smilin' Desperado

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 04:11 AM

well of course

#26 toxicsludgeboy

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 04:29 AM

weerd science is good shit too.

www.weerdscience.com

www.purevolume.com/weerdscience

#27 spiderking

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 05:37 AM

Ghost face Killah - Iron man

Did anyone get masta killas cd, i havent heard it, but i heard it was good.

#28 hottnikkels

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 06:45 PM

He obviously can't make even a halfway decent argument to back his words up, so that makes anything he says completely worthless. For someone that seems to think of himself as some sort of an intellectual his stubbornness and apathy has led him to sound pretty ignorant if you ask me.

#29 arejay

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 08:22 PM

If you're the punkrock kinda kid who can't get enough of that punkvoter.com-esque shallow rhetoric ... then maybe you need to check out the Coup.

#30 Carruthers

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 08:31 PM

Diplo, DJ Shadow, The Presage, Koushik, Edan, Percee P, Clouddead, Dooley O...hell, I even love Lil Jon productions. There is too much good music going on RIGHT NOW to block yourself off. Hip hop is music and it is here to stay.

Did anyone get masta killas cd, i havent heard it, but i heard it was good.

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Very good.

#31 Cicatriz71088

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 08:40 PM

Music is subjective

if you don't like hip hop, so what?

I do enjoy some hip hop, im a big Nappy Roots fan

#32 Cicatriz71088

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 08:41 PM

Sole, Atmosphere, Hieroglyphics

Anyone?

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right here brothah

#33 hottnikkels

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 09:00 PM

Music is subjective

if you don't like hip hop, so what?

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This convention's not saying you have to like hip-hop, but rather that you should understand that it's just as promising and authentic as any other art-form or musical genre.

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#34 Dino Suzuki

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 09:34 PM

Blah blah blah, just another hip hop thread on a mars volta site jacking off to backpacker bullshit. Stop being white. Anticon has as little to say as 50 Cent.

#35 Smilin' Desperado

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 09:43 PM

backpacker bullshit is the worst

#36 hottnikkels

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 09:48 PM

just another hip hop thread on a mars volta site

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Do you mean the same Mars Volta that contributed to the latest "Handsome Boy Modeling School" album?


I love when someone starts off a statement with blah blah blah, it shows they haven't listened to a word you've said and they'll leave the conversation as ignorant as they came.

Bla bla bla.
Comparing hip hop to music is like comparing this chat board with To Kill a Mockingbird.

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Blah blah blah, Stop being white. Anticon has as little to say as 50 Cent.

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#37 Dino Suzuki

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 10:03 PM

Hip hop rocks. I'm just sick of every thread about "hip hop" on this board being about Aesop Rock and Atmosphere. Obviously, the Mars Volta guesting on a Handsome Boy Modelling School album doesn't necesarrily mean their indie snob fans know, or are willing to accept, any hip hop outside of some backpacking nasally white guys.

A hip hop convention should at least mention Public Enemy, Mos Def, the Roots, Wu Tang, those fucking hippies De La Soul, and a Tribe Called Quest etc etc etc if you want to get the point across that hip hop is "just as promising and authentic as any other art-form or musical genre." I'm not even asking you to mention Tupac or Biggie, for I'm sure they're way too "mainstream" and not "intelligent" or wordy enough.



You could have at least mentioned good backpackers like Cannibal Ox.

#38 hottnikkels

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 10:20 PM

Hip hop rocks. I'm just sick of every thread about "hip hop" on this board being about Aesop Rock and Atmosphere. Obviously, the Mars Volta guesting on a Handsome Boy Modelling School album doesn't necesarrily mean their indie snob fans know, or are willing to accept, any hip hop outside of some backpacking nasally white guys.

A hip hop convention should at least mention Public Enemy, Mos Def, the Roots, Wu Tang, those fucking hippies De La Soul, and a Tribe Called Quest etc etc etc if you want to get the point across that hip hop is "just as promising and authentic as any other art-form or musical genre." I'm not even asking you to mention Tupac or Biggie, for I'm sure they're way too "mainstream" and not "intelligent" or wordy enough.



You could have at least mentioned good backpackers like Cannibal Ox.

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I don't even listen to Anticon artists, which is why I didn't mention them on my lists, but I respect them and certainly acknowledge that they have as much to say as anyone else that writes music.

Did you even read the thread or did you just come in here to talk shit? De La soul, A tribe called quest, gza (from wu-tang), and Mos def are all on my list of albums to listen to. In fact that list is only like 12 albums long so you just named 1/4 of the artists on it.

I love Biggie and Tupac, but I'm trying to show people that don't enjoy the violent or bragadocious lyrics and typical beats of most mainstream hip-hop that there is more available than that, and if that doesn't suit them perhaps something more expieramental or thought provoking (in different way) will.

I'm a fan of Cannibal Ox, Public Enemy, and lots of other artists, but I had already made that long thread and I wasn't going to spend all day writing out every single essential hip-hop album ever made. That's why I encouraged others to add onto that list in their own posts.

#39 Mr. Id

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 10:56 PM

He obviously can't make even a halfway decent argument to back his words up, so that makes anything he says completely worthless. For someone that seems to think of himself as some sort of an intellectual his stubbornness and apathy has led him to sound pretty ignorant if you ask me.

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It's a matter of the basics of form, children. Bona fide songwriting requires a set of dimensions utterly lacking in rap: structure (in the Aristotelian sense--meaning beginning, mounting tension, climax, denoument); structure (in the chromatic sense); melody, a dimension of limitless permutational potential absent from rap; and the interactional dimension of melodic/lyrical con-fusion.
Typical song structure: A (intro); B (verse); C (chorus); B, C, D (bridge), C, maybe C again, etc....
Typical rap: A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A ... ad nauseum, "A" representing a looped sample of some pretty damned great Motown classic.

To put some rapster on the same level of a true songwriter is to do a great disservice and to show a lack of appreciation for the spiritual efforts of the person who bothered to learn how to play an instrument, tap into the art of songwriting, and create something original and indelible to contribute to the world.

Now, mind you, I know that not all rap is the "typical" variety I illustrated above, but I have no interest in stuff like the Roots, whom people treat like Isaac Newton for learning how to competently wield organic instruments. Big deal; it just shows how much the bar has been lowered by rap for the demands we place on musicians.

This is not a subjective analysis, either, so just quit with that.

#40 Dino Suzuki

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 11:23 PM

He obviously can't make even a halfway decent argument to back his words up, so that makes anything he says completely worthless. For someone that seems to think of himself as some sort of an intellectual his stubbornness and apathy has led him to sound pretty ignorant if you ask me.

View Post


It's a matter of the basics of form, children. Bona fide songwriting requires a set of dimensions utterly lacking in rap: structure (in the Aristotelian sense--meaning beginning, mounting tension, climax, denoument); structure (in the chromatic sense); melody, a dimension of limitless permutational potential absent from rap; and the interactional dimension of melodic/lyrical con-fusion.
Typical song structure: A (intro); B (verse); C (chorus); B, C, D (bridge), C, maybe C again, etc....
Typical rap: A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A ... ad nauseum, "A" representing a looped sample of some pretty damned great Motown classic.

To put some rapster on the same level of a true songwriter is to do a great disservice and to show a lack of appreciation for the spiritual efforts of the person who bothered to learn how to play an instrument, tap into the art of songwriting, and create something original and indelible to contribute to the world.

Now, mind you, I know that not all rap is the "typical" variety I illustrated above, but I have no interest in stuff like the Roots, whom people treat like Isaac Newton for learning how to competently wield organic instruments. Big deal; it just shows how much the bar has been lowered by rap for the demands we place on musicians.

This is not a subjective analysis, either, so just quit with that.

View Post


What we have here is someone who refuses to accept an art that diverges from old tried and true methods. Music is noise and art. Labelling song parts with letters doesn't make anything more valid than anything else. Velvet Underground's Heroin is little more than A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A as well. Maybe a B thrown in somewhere for good measure.

A short 30 second snippet of an "A" can mean more than some wanky prog bands song that has a structure of A, H, A, A, Z, D, S, Z, A, A, B, A, B, F, 5, Q, *, ^, @, L.


The way something is structured does not make something valid or invalid art, or ever make something enjoyable, heartfelt, meaningful, or emotional. Many rap groups have songs that are more meaningful, socially relevant, and a true piece of art than countless bands who use your precious "proper" song structures.




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